This complex issue is very simple
Relax Andy and my loyal following (mom and dad), I was not supporting torture. I was looking at the bigger picture, and, well, being idealistic like our boy KentuckyFriedCruelty.com.
Yes, torture is totally unethical, but isn’t war even more unethical, and doesn’t torture primarily arise from war?
Just think how illogical it is to have rules of war; total oxymoron. “I want to wipe you off the Earth, you want to wipe out me, but first let’s set up some ground rules.”
All’s fair in love and war, so if a country or a group of people feel its livelyhood is threatened, it’s only natural to use any means necessary to survive. However, in the case of the Iraq war, I think we can agree that America is not being threatened, therefore torture is not necessary.
We are working within a certain paradigm in which war is seen as a necessity way too often, and has become ridiculously acceptable. So I just feel it’s crazy hypocritical to discuss the ethics of a totally unethical practice: killing other human beings. People in power want the ability to strike, yet they also want to make it seem as civilized as possible to win the public relations battle, so they hide under the veil of things like the Geneva Conventions.
We’re so big on humanity that tens of thousands of innocent people have died as a result of the Iraq war, which really doesn’t hold up well on the “greater good” scale.
If John McCain puts himself on a battlefield, he has to understand he’s putting himself in a position where the worst could and most likely will happen. He made himself into a human killing machine in an immoral war against a side that felt like it was fighting for its freedom (I don’t care how it’s dressed, as patriotic, heroic or necessary for peace; it still consists of killing other human beings — draftees would obviously be excluded). And wasn’t his side spraying Napalm, assassinating leaders and conducting illegal bombings in Cambodia?
A great movie to watch on this subject is “Apocalypse Now.” One of its main ideas is that America is becoming too sentimental and civilized to be involved in modern wars, because their enemies, much like the extremists of 9/11, will stop at nothing to achieve their goal. It’s an alarm that we must work toward peace because our swamp of contradicting morals can’t perennially compete with educated people willing to kill themselves for a cause.
The horror. The horror.
Yes, I would be upset if my pet was tortured before it was killed because it has sentimental value to me. A group of chickens or cows, who feel pain, but don’t have enough of a consciousness to understand the pain (if they were that aware of themselves, we’d be having conversations with them), don’t have sentimental value to anyone except for extreme animal lovers. But a small group of people should not set the agenda for the rest of us.
I tell ya, people or animals won’t remember how they suffered once they’re dead.
As for Andy’s comments on PETA, I think they’re very aware of what they wear, and stay away from stuff like leather products (which mainly come from cows, so at least we’re getting the most out of them). It’s the more casual vegetarians and animal lovers that end up being hypocrites because of their lack of knowledge and passion.
January 1st, 2006 at 2:43 am
Well, we will have to agree to disagree. You say that if chickens and cows were that aware of themselves, we’d be having conversations with them. I never had a conversation with a dog. To be a good nerd, I will quote STAR TREK IV: THE VOYAGE HOME, and tell you that my compassion for another being is not limited by my estimation of their intelligence.
January 1st, 2006 at 3:44 am
If you’re eating and wearing animals that died just for the very purposes, where’s the compassion in that?
I don’t get your dog analogy. My point was just that all animals besides humans aren’t aware of their existence — even dogs. (that starts a whole ‘nother philosophical debate about what qualifies as consciousness) They have instincts, but little more beyond that. But we don’t slaughter dogs, cats and other pets and cute animals because of sentimental reasons. It’s a lot easier for us to detach ourselves from the rest of the animal kingdom.
January 1st, 2006 at 9:19 am
“If God didn’t intend for us to eat animals, then why did he make them out of meat?”
— Anonymous
“Eat more chikken”
— Cows from Chik-Fil-A
“Beef. It’s what’s for dinner”
— Sam Elliott
“Pork. The other white meat”
— Advertisement
“Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I’d never know ‘cause I wouldn’t eat the filthy motherfucker. Pigs sleep and root in shit. That’s a filthy animal. I ain’t eat nothin’ that ain’t got enough sense enough to disregard its own feces.”
— Jules, Pulp Fiction
“Meat is Murder”
— The Smiths
“I like mine with lettuce and tomato Heinz 57 and french fried potatoes Big kosher pickle and a cold draft beer …”
— Jimmy Buffett, Cheeseburger in paradise
“Call me Mr. Lamb Fries!”
— Andy Farmer, Funny Farm
January 1st, 2006 at 10:27 am
“two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions, on seseme seed bun.”
—Ronald McDonald
“Where’s the beef?”
—old biddy from Wendy’s
“Bacon tastes good, pork chops taste good.”
—Travolta in Pulp fiction
where do you guys stand on ocean meat, ya know, fish?
January 1st, 2006 at 12:02 pm
Don’t misunderstand me. If given the chance, I would eat dog. And they do eat dogs and cats in some parts of the world. If it were legal, I would eat Elephant and Whale. I like to eat everything.
January 1st, 2006 at 9:32 pm
I don’t like PETA, I find them a bit extreme. But they serve a purpose, and their message would be lost if they were more like “hey we don’t eat meat, you shouldn’t either”, so they instead do things like put out books aimed toward children telling them that their Daddy is an animal killer if he FISHES! Again, I don’t like PETA, but stuff like that at least causes these discussions, which isn’t a bad thing. If PETA was passive, they’d get walked all over - because people like their meat.
Regarding the war thing, saying “war is unethical” is a bit vague for me. I don’t understand the context of that statement.